113 | Celebrating Your Craft: How To Overcome Imposter Syndrome and Share Your Musical Story With Deyson Thiara

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what you drinking I'll just drink water not, not this.

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It's actually water kefir from a good friend, ronnie.

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She made it for me.

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It's like homemade fermented water.

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Isn't that crazy?

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That is pretty wild.

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I need to get into that tastes so good, I would.

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I would.

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If you want, you can have some.

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You want some?

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I think I'm good.

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Yeah, I'm good, okay, okay, I gotta get directly from the source yeah, it's gotta be.

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Yeah, you gotta link me up, ronnie.

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We're gonna need some more of this.

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It's not organic kombucha brew, doctor.

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This is a false advertising label.

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This is ronnie's home mix, moonshine.

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Welcome back.

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Ladies and gentlemen, we are here sitting with my dear friend Decent.

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I love just seeing your name like that, dude man.

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What are we going to talk about?

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We got so many things to chat about here today on Under the Radar.

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I mean, that's cool just to take a moment to talk about Under the Radar as the secrets to success for the independent artist musician, and we were talking as you got in here and we got this room set up.

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There's so many layers, and I really want to just loft one at you right off the bat.

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Before we get there, though, what's been the highlight of your day?

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The highlight of my day?

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I think the highlight of my day is being here and just kind of talking, music and chatting with Jose here, all of us just vibing listening to some meditation music.

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That was wild.

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Hey yeah, music is such an interesting thing and that's where I want to go.

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Man, you wear so many different hats.

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You're a 100%er like myself.

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You just do everything and you do it really really well.

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And the thing I want to start things off here with is when you're sitting down and people come into your world, it's typically through production, right.

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Yeah, that's typically where things start with me.

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So I had the experience of working with you hands-on very cold, I don't know but I love this guy and I'm just going to go and I'm just going to trust whatever the signs, I'm going to go and just put it all down.

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And what really really elevated my game as both an artist but also as a songwriter and just hearing your different perspectives was like how great you were at just hearing me, making me feel seen and also being like, yeah, that's cool and what about this?

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So my question to you is what's's the number one problem with the way musicians look at their careers or how they look at the production side of things?

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Is there something that we're missing?

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What are the big problems when people come into studio that you see?

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I think the number one challenge that I see is not actually with the recording or the production process itself, but kind of the follow up to that.

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You finish this really fantastic song and then, you know, artists really just want to dive into the next song right away.

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They don't want to give what they've just finished the love it deserves, and so they'll put it out, and then it's right on to the next thing.

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They don't let it, you know, sit with their audience for a while and they don't.

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They don't, they don't give it love on the back end through promoting it or, you know, even like, to an extent, performing it.

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I find a lot of artists perform a song while they're writing it because it's exciting to them, and then the moment something's out, it's on to performing the new songs.

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I feel like they just don't let it sit.

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They don't get to enjoy the fruits of their labor, so to speak.

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Dude, there's so many relations to lifestyle.

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We don't sit and pause, we don't sit and hang out before the show and listen to meditative music and drink moonshine.

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We don't rip up on the volcano, we don't take enough time to just slow down and be in the present.

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I mean, that's the gift.

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So what are some of the common things when people come in?

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Are they frantic?

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Are they lost?

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They really just want to push.

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Is it the hustle culture?

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What do you think it is?

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I think it's.

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Maybe there's a little bit of fear of putting stuff in front of more listeners, getting more people to listen to music because more feedback comes in.

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And I think maybe there's some imposter syndrome that goes along with that, because when you create something it feels good for you and you make a song that feels great for you and it can be scary to put that out and really push it, and so I think people get caught up on that.

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They do the thing that feels really self-fulfilling and they maybe shy away from the aspects of the industry that they're a little bit scared of.

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I do think it's something that's born out of fear.

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Cool.

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What do you think that fear is rooted in?

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That's a good question.

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I mean, I do think there's a lot of imposter syndrome that goes around for sure and, like I think, the fear that you put a lot of effort into something you really love and maybe it doesn't perform as well if you actually try and promote it, like it's a lot easier to say I didn't promote something and so it doesn't have that many listens.

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I think it's a really tough thing to say my whole heart ends up promoting this song.

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I put as much effort into making the content and pushing it out there and no one's listening to it.

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So maybe you have to confront something with yourself where you might feel like the song is worth less because it didn't catch on when you're trying to promote it.

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I think that's definitely a big part of it.

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Wow, let's talk about some imposter syndrome.

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You said something really cool in there where it's fear-based and in my experience with imposter syndrome, it's rooted in our language.

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My experience with imposter syndrome it's rooted in our language and more often than not it's less imposter syndrome, it's new syndrome.

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How many times think about it like the last thing that?

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have you ever experienced imposter syndrome?

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Absolutely.

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Yeah, Give me an example.

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I mean, quite often I get in my own head when I'm sending pretty much anything to clients video edits or a mix of a song there's always not always, I shouldn't say always, but there's quite often a feeling of I'm going to lose this client after I send this mix to them because it's that bad, it's that bad.

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And then it comes back and they're like it's perfect, no revisions, we love it.

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Isn't that interesting, because the thing that I talk about most often with imposter syndrome is the fact that we're brand new to this, one thing that we've yet to do.

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So if we look at the way the subconscious works, it's based off of patterns, possibly from like, when you were anywhere from six to 12 is a very common age, where you were told this happens all the time when people get up on stage and they get stage fright or imposter syndrome of being like, not worth it on stage.

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What if it was actually rooted in?

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When they were eight years old, they ripped out their ukulele and it was family night, sunday night, after dinner.

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And they rip out and they get up in front of the TV and they just start ripping on the ukulele.

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And you know it's family night, sunday night, after dinner.

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And they rip out and they get up in front of the tv and they just start ripping on on the ukulele.

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But great aunt betty is sitting over here going like get out of the way.

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I'm trying to watch the show.

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You're no good.

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Like they get mad, they act, they react, yeah, and that stays as an imprint in that child for the rest of their life.

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And then we get to see them 25 years later in the studio and they go and they freeze Because their subconscious brings back that moment where they think they're no good because of that first instance Right Now for you being the imposter of sending a new file.

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How many files have you sent in video when you first sent it?

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I bet it in video when you first sent it.

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I bet it was probably stronger when you first sent that video file, right Like the first one that you sent.

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Absolutely.

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Well, think about this.

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If I were to say, hey, let's go out play some basketball, we're going to take free throws and you never played basketball before.

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Yeah.

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Is that imposter syndrome?

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No, or is that new syndrome?

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It Imposter syndrome or is that new syndrome?

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You never played it, yeah.

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So that's the thing that I think the overarching message of imposter syndrome is it's reasonable.

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So here's one thing.

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If you go, hey, I have imposter syndrome because let's just play a game, pick any of the things that you listed.

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I have imposter syndrome about what?

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I have imposter syndrome about sending a mix, because I worry that my mixes aren't as good as some of my favorite engineers.

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Perfect.

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Then all I would say is like add of course to the front of that.

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Now say it.

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Of course I have imposter syndrome.

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Yeah, of course I have.

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Of course I have imposter syndrome because I worry about my mixes not being as good as my favorite engineers.

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Does that make sense?

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Yeah, Of course it does.

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Some of my favorite engineers are legends, right?

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Yeah, so it's like, of course I have imposter syndrome.

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I want to match that standard and it lessens the severity.

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So that's the thing that I deal with, because when we first started working together, that was the first time I ever sang.

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Man, I've never really sang before.

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You heard me on the demo going.

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I don't know what I'm doing, but you brought me out of the shell and that's the thing I love so much about.

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It is that you have a way of and this is where I'm wrapping the whole thing up safety.

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You create a really safe space.

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In every environment I've ever been with you.

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You have a very positive grounding aura vibe.

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Well, thank you, that's super nice to hear.

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Yeah, man, and that's what I mean is that when people come in, there's no way they can have imposter syndrome because you're like the warmest person in there.

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Right, like, even if they are butchering it, you're going to find a way to like tactfully get into it.

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So I'd be interested in knowing, like, what are some of the most common things when you have like an artist in the studio?

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Where is like the stopping point?

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Where do they choke up?

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right in the production process.

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I think it's definitely when people are doing something for the first time, first-time singers or first-time artists in general, definitely tend to get in their own head.

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I was even working with one singer where it was his first time recording vocals for a song and we would hit play and he would sing one note and then immediately stop and I'd tell him look, I think what you're going to do is going to sound good, like I hear it there Just go for it.

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Like, even if you think it sounds bad, even if you you think it's not the take we're going to use, just commit to it.

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You're going to go from front to back and you're going to sing something and we don't have to use it in the final, in the final recording or the final mix, but just commit to doing it front to back.

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And as soon as we did that, like two takes, later he has the take for the song and it sounds great.

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See, and that's again comes back to like that was his first time doing it.

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Yeah Right, so is it really like that's?

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That's the thing I want people to think about.

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Is it really imposter syndrome If you've never actually given yourself the opportunity to do ever?

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If you want that drill, that we just did is write that thing down and then put of course right before it and then really emphasize that Of course I've got imposter syndrome.

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I've never done this before.

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Yeah.

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That's a really great way to kind of change the perspective around it and acknowledge it.

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Because I think the other part is we try to bury it and we don't really deal with it and it just kind of amplifies the feeling the next time because you haven't processed it.

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That's exactly it and that's the reason we go into that.

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So I mean even going deeper about that.

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If people are listening, they're going.

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That's really interesting, because it is.

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It absolutely is really interesting.

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The key to it is literally writing things down.

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I have a joke about anytime I'm doing presentations or any masterclasses or any sort of talks.

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I'm like you could splash water on my face at 3am and tell me I'm on stage in five minutes and all I would need to know is if they have a pen and a piece of paper.

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That's it.

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You can tell me what the topic is.

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So, for the instance of the imposter, if you guys are sitting there going like I've got imposter syndrome for releasing this new album I'm really not sure how it's going to go out and it's my first album Literally write that down and read it and breathe Like read it and feel like read it out loud, breathe in and then figure out what sensations come up.

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Do we feel it in the chest, do we feel it in the in the head?

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A lot of the time it's right in the throat.

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You get that lump in the throat right in here, and that's very interesting because if we know the things that I know about the chakras.

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The throat chakra is the thing that is.

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I speak as the affirmation.

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So if we're a singer, of course that's going to get blocked, and if you're blocked in the throat, you're blocked in all of the chakras, right?

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So it's important to, as you said, identify it, become aware, be like oh, it's here, we're calling attention to it, now we can do something about it.

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Then add that, of course, to that thing and read it again and see what changes, right, you'll likely feel a difference between the two things.

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And that's the cool thing.

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And I want to take this in the in the creativity direction, because I'm sure that was another thing in our work together.

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Um, we'll get into, like what, what your actual role is, because, like I said, you've got a lot of hats, but in our work together, in production here in calgary, you have a really, really great way of adding creativity to the mix as well.

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Like, and I feel as though I'm a, I'm a pretty creative guy, and then you came in with some more ideas and I'm like Whoa, how important is it for you as a, as a producer, as an artist yourself, to have that collaborative emphasis in in the effort of serving the song?

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Oh, it's so important.

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I mean, I one thing, I'm I'm usually working on songs that I wouldn't call my songs.

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You know, like they're kind of all my my songs and that like they're all my babies, yeah, um, you get really attached to them, but ultimately it's someone, it's someone else's vision and someone else has to have that song attached to their name for for life once it's out.

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You know, um, and so it needs to be a two-way kind of process working with them to uncover what their vision is.

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And really what I think my role is is throwing as many different creative possibilities at them and kind of seeing what sticks, like what they catch, and say, oh, that's super cool and what they make their own.

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So I would say I say, oh, that's super cool, and what they make their own, yeah, um.

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So I would say I mean it's super important.

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And sometimes you're like throwing ideas and someone is like a little disinterested, or maybe they, they think it's your job to figure out which ideas catch, um, and I mean ultimately those, those projects, I find you kind of have to.

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You have to reframe things a little bit Like, look, this is your song, I can throw 10 different drum grooves at you, but one of them has to make you feel something emotionally, and if none of those made you feel anything emotionally, then let's go back to the drawing board.

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Maybe I just don't fully understand what your vision is, but yeah, it really does have to be A very collaborative process.

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And I think you bring a really interesting point up there too, because one of the things that I notice is what we were just talking about, the speak.

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Yeah, people are afraid to actually say what they think because of you being like in a, especially if it's a brand new relationship.

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You know, when I first start working with people, there's that like okay, we're feeling each other out, like Is he going to take this personally?

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Because we don't want to hurt people's feelings, which is by all means, of course.

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At the same time, I think it's really important, especially as creatives, to be able to voice from a place of safety and understanding.

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That's your baby.

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So, having the voice to be able to be like yes, no, and the confidence to say it in a nice compassionate way, that's not hurtful, not malicious, it's just like voicing your opinion.

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What are your, what are your thoughts on that?

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As either on either side of the fence, like is that something that you have have struggled with in the past?

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Like voicing your concern to artists.

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I mean, I think I think it helps to establish kind of the boundaries and the communication right up front.

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So quite often if I'm working with someone and I'm really taking more of a role in the production, like if it's a solo artist and I'm going to be playing the drums and guitars and bass or arranging the session musicians and really building up their arrangements for them, which is definitely like a different vibe than a band coming in where they all perform their own parts Usually within the first draft I send them something.

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I'll say look, I'm throwing spaghetti at the wall here.

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Let me know if this is cool and if it makes you feel the way that you imagine the song should make you feel, and if it doesn't, don't hesitate at all to tell me.

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And I find on the other side you usually intuitively pick up how people are going to respond to me, giving them any sort of feedback on their, their stuff within the first hour of a session, you know yeah like you kind of.

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I find I build up to it.

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Yeah, like you start with small things like if, uh, if a drummer's in and I'm like you want to try this different crash symbol and if there's like immediate resistance to that, that's like okay, I kind of see where you're coming from and how I need to approach recording you on on my side to make you feel comfortable.

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Yeah.

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And I find, like the more experienced drummers tend to feel confident enough in their own abilities and their parts that you can give them some feedback, and they don't really.

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They're like okay, cool, I'll give it a try yeah, they're open to it at least yeah I, I found the same thing.

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Um, I want to circle back on that and then get into how you actually got into all of this, because, I mean, it's a it's a fascinating journey, so we'll come back right to that.

00:17:59.351 --> 00:18:05.378
Yeah, one of the things that came up for me, though, was I I saw a lot of it in both my work with when I was working with um.

00:18:05.378 --> 00:18:10.584
I saw a lot of it in both my work with when I was working with artists for their custom song, but they're not musical at all.

00:18:10.584 --> 00:18:12.085
Right, they're not musical at all.

00:18:12.085 --> 00:18:14.146
So they have totally different language.

00:18:14.146 --> 00:18:17.970
So I was often like if your song was an animal, what kind of animal would it be.

00:18:18.130 --> 00:18:20.192
Right, and they're like, oh, and then I could understand from there.

00:18:20.192 --> 00:18:29.329
Yeah, and the thing that I found was I switched a couple words around that got better responses, like I wanted.

00:18:29.329 --> 00:18:43.221
And one of the things that we talk about when we come back to language again for people that listen to this show you're going to hear it time and time again the thoughts that we think are articulated by the words that we speak, both outwardly to the people around us, but also the stories that we tell ourselves.

00:18:43.221 --> 00:18:55.601
We pile a bunch of those thoughts up into a pack of I don't know bacon and sausage and pancakes because I'm Canadian and that feels like a good breakfast.

00:18:55.601 --> 00:19:01.640
We've got this huge stack of pancakes of thoughts that's known as a belief system.

00:19:02.016 --> 00:19:05.465
That belief system is what actually carries out your actions.

00:19:05.465 --> 00:19:10.594
So if you are unhappy about where you're at, say, you've got imposter syndrome.

00:19:10.594 --> 00:19:12.481
Maybe you're not where you want to be in your career.

00:19:12.481 --> 00:19:13.136
It's like it's.

00:19:13.136 --> 00:19:21.442
Unfortunately, sometimes it's due to exactly the beliefs that you subscribe to, which are rooted in the words Right.

00:19:21.442 --> 00:19:30.662
And the thing that I found I was like, okay, well, hang on, if I want them to approach me, I don't want to tell them, and I learned this, actually, from my nephew.

00:19:30.662 --> 00:19:31.825
Okay.

00:19:32.366 --> 00:19:33.155
I know it's fascinating.

00:19:33.155 --> 00:19:43.545
I saw him playing bocce ball when he was like four or five years old, out in the backyard and my brother's yelling at him saying don't do that, don't.

00:19:43.545 --> 00:19:44.968
No.

00:19:44.968 --> 00:19:49.520
Zane was just having that time of his life because he was doing everything that his dad didn't want him to do.

00:19:49.520 --> 00:19:58.848
Okay, but it was because the way our mind processes things is we don't hear the negations, we don't hear the don'ts, can'ts, won'ts, wants like the shouldn'ts.

00:19:59.069 --> 00:19:59.230
Yeah.

00:19:59.474 --> 00:20:01.201
We just hear the thing that comes after them.

00:20:01.201 --> 00:20:10.897
Yes, when you say don't hesitate to reach out and I see this all the time in the emails what we do think about this Don't think about the pink elephant.

00:20:10.897 --> 00:20:11.941
What are you thinking about?

00:20:11.961 --> 00:20:12.863
I'm thinking about the pink elephant.

00:20:12.863 --> 00:20:13.585
I said don't.

00:20:14.145 --> 00:20:15.028
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know what I mean.

00:20:15.028 --> 00:20:24.439
So I clued in on this with these artists that weren't really artists, because I was like don't worry about what kind of instruments it is or anything.

00:20:24.439 --> 00:20:28.943
I was saying all these don'ts, and now they were worrying about the things that I told them not to worry about.

00:20:28.943 --> 00:20:31.826
Yeah, right, and it's just the way the mind works.

00:20:31.826 --> 00:20:43.217
So I started flipping the negation to an affirmation yes, so instead of saying something like don't hesitate to reach out if you have any questions, I would say reach out with any questions.

00:20:43.896 --> 00:20:45.798
Yes, and that's it.

00:20:45.798 --> 00:20:50.643
Ever since we've met, I've been trying to be more mindful of how I use language, and you caught me there.

00:20:51.143 --> 00:20:58.970
But it's like it's so dude, it's in everything, it's in all of our copy, it's in all of our marketing we're based.

00:20:58.970 --> 00:21:01.051
Here's why it's conflict.

00:21:01.051 --> 00:21:04.556
Language Conflict can control people.

00:21:04.556 --> 00:21:10.307
So if we're writing songs with conflict, what do you think is going to happen when those people listen to the song?

00:21:10.307 --> 00:21:14.364
Conflict, but it's rooted in our society, yeah Right.

00:21:14.364 --> 00:21:21.048
So when you hear I'm just trying to think of like a song Don't Worry, be Happy.

00:21:21.048 --> 00:21:24.039
Yeah, you could probably remove, take out the.

00:21:24.039 --> 00:21:27.426
Probably just be happy, just be happy, just be happy, and take out the.

00:21:27.426 --> 00:21:28.749
Probably just be happy, just be happy, just be happy, and take out the.

00:21:28.749 --> 00:21:29.097
Just because that limits.

00:21:29.535 --> 00:21:34.284
I was just the drummer for a long time I use that word too much and I need to cut it down, isn't it?

00:21:34.284 --> 00:21:38.486
Interesting, though it just rolls off the tongue because you hear it so much.

00:21:39.017 --> 00:21:40.643
Well, we hear it all the time in email.

00:21:40.643 --> 00:21:41.980
Hey, just wanted to follow up.

00:21:41.980 --> 00:21:47.719
Hey, just checking in, just checking in.

00:21:47.719 --> 00:21:49.053
Hey, just wanted to see how you were digging those mixes.

00:21:49.053 --> 00:21:50.842
It's so insecure right.

00:21:50.842 --> 00:21:59.916
It limits us, and that's the cool thing with language guys is that it sounds so simple and it is.

00:21:59.916 --> 00:22:04.298
It's not easy, though Negation acknowledged it's not easy, it is simple.

00:22:04.298 --> 00:22:05.483
It is actually challenging.

00:22:05.835 --> 00:22:06.678
It is really challenging.

00:22:06.678 --> 00:22:13.755
It's definitely something that we grabbed coffee and you mentioned that and I had a bunch of recording sessions.

00:22:13.755 --> 00:22:14.256
Afterwards.

00:22:14.256 --> 00:22:17.506
I made a really conscious effort to use more positive language.

00:22:17.875 --> 00:22:18.538
It's so cool.

00:22:18.618 --> 00:22:22.175
And it makes a big difference Telling a drummer if maybe they're a little behind the click drum.

00:22:22.175 --> 00:22:25.703
I remember telling a drummer could you play that part with more urgency?

00:22:25.703 --> 00:22:29.561
And that's just like way better than saying you're a little behind the click, can you?

00:22:29.561 --> 00:22:34.040
Oh yeah, like yeah, just immediately clicked next take was great for sure.

00:22:34.161 --> 00:22:53.015
Yeah, play it with more urgency, or like finding a way to um empower that person, and that's what I mean about having crucial conversations, because your role as a, as a as a producer, you're constantly in line of fire yeah like because this is their baby and you have to negotiate.

00:22:53.756 --> 00:23:08.628
I have to communicate this message to this person who's created this gift, and I have, I hear it being so much more than where they are, and I have to have like tact to be able to influence what they.

00:23:08.628 --> 00:23:10.457
And here's another one, like I'm I'm.

00:23:10.457 --> 00:23:11.500
This one just came up too.

00:23:11.500 --> 00:23:17.692
It's that one of the other things that I saw from the same situation is working as a producer with people that are non-artists.

00:23:17.692 --> 00:23:38.542
It was actually one of the best experiences of my life because I had to speak their language, and one of the things that I found is that so often again because of probably a societal thing, is that we're so influenced by trial yeses in sales and marketing, you immediately feel sales resistance, like he's trying to get me to do something.

00:23:38.542 --> 00:23:40.583
If you try to say, can you do this?

00:23:40.583 --> 00:23:51.421
And it's looking for a yes, what I did is I switched it and go to note-oriented questions, very, very similar to what, uh, chris voss does, okay, uh, fbi negotiator.

00:23:51.421 --> 00:23:52.904
So, yeah, I mean he knows what he's doing.

00:23:52.904 --> 00:24:00.199
Um, when, when it comes to like negotiating, and so when you, we go into the studio or something with these people, I'm like, would it be wild.

00:24:00.199 --> 00:24:01.281
You'll hear this all the time.

00:24:01.281 --> 00:24:04.740
Now you're like you're understanding my like deeper anytime we're in conversation.

00:24:04.740 --> 00:24:05.884
Oh, that's why he's doing that.

00:24:05.884 --> 00:24:07.958
It's just habit now, though, but it's like no.

00:24:08.097 --> 00:24:15.461
Oriented questions will actually oftentimes get you the product or the result that you're looking for faster, Because there's no resistance.

00:24:15.461 --> 00:24:23.643
Because if I say, jason, would it be crazy to do a podcast on Thursday talking about drums, you'd be like no, it wouldn't be crazy at all, let's fucking do it.

00:24:23.643 --> 00:24:34.641
Yeah, be like no, it wouldn't be crazy at all, let's fucking do it.

00:24:34.641 --> 00:24:34.740
Yeah.

00:24:34.740 --> 00:24:36.243
Oh, perfect, you just sold yourself.

00:24:36.243 --> 00:24:37.646
I didn't say, hey, do you want to come over and do this podcast?

00:24:37.646 --> 00:24:38.407
Here's how I learned this.

00:24:38.429 --> 00:24:40.011
My ex in australia was crazy bad at like dinner plans.

00:24:40.011 --> 00:24:43.577
Okay, okay, I'd be like we'd go out on like a wednesday or thursday yeah, date night.

00:24:43.577 --> 00:24:46.542
And there were like so many in Melbourne.

00:24:46.542 --> 00:24:49.107
There are so many great food options and I understood that.

00:24:49.107 --> 00:24:50.470
I was like, wow, this is crazy.

00:24:50.470 --> 00:24:52.101
It's on the block.

00:24:52.174 --> 00:25:09.141
You've got at least five different places that you could go that are all premier, especially in the hood that we were living, and I got to learn that Mel bless her heart, she would be very indecisive and I remember hearing these no-oriented questions to get there faster.

00:25:09.141 --> 00:25:18.627
So, rather than spending 45 minutes and going back to the thing that we started at, I just went hey, would it be wild if we tried the ramen spot across the street?

00:25:18.627 --> 00:25:20.529
No, that'd be great, perfect Done.

00:25:20.529 --> 00:25:23.332
Rather than, hey, what do you want for dinner today?

00:25:23.332 --> 00:25:24.740
Where should we go?

00:25:24.740 --> 00:25:31.761
Well, we could do pizza, we could go over for ramen, we could do some sushi, maybe we could try that new Thai place.

00:25:31.894 --> 00:25:34.239
45 minutes later, it lands back on ramen.

00:25:34.239 --> 00:25:37.701
I'm like, why don't we just right so you can eliminate all the options?

00:25:37.701 --> 00:25:39.555
Yeah, because it gets you there faster.

00:25:39.555 --> 00:25:44.061
And these are things that I'm certain would be helpful, because it helped me with my artists totally.

00:25:44.061 --> 00:25:49.911
Would it be crazy to add wood flute in here and they go no, that sounds awesome, let's try it.

00:25:49.911 --> 00:25:51.534
Yeah, perfect now.

00:25:51.534 --> 00:25:59.099
I just got their permission to try something that I could have spent almost an hour trying to negotiate, like what kind of instruments do you want to hear?

00:25:59.099 --> 00:26:00.083
You know what I?

00:26:00.123 --> 00:26:03.432
mean yeah hey, would it be crazy to put that thing in a shuffle?

00:26:03.432 --> 00:26:05.762
Why don't you try shuffling that?

00:26:05.762 --> 00:26:07.960
Wow, that'd be cool.

00:26:07.960 --> 00:26:16.707
It's so interesting the way the mind works, especially in studio, because there's so much pressure there is yeah, that's super helpful.

00:26:17.115 --> 00:26:31.463
I've definitely heard of that technique, but more from the kinds of people who subscribe to the always be selling mentality, where it's like, instead of asking would you like to have a phone call to talk about your project, say, would you oppose?

00:26:31.463 --> 00:26:34.839
Would you be opposed to having a phone call tomorrow to talk about it?

00:26:35.221 --> 00:26:38.230
yeah, I mean it's, it's tact, right.

00:26:38.230 --> 00:26:39.314
It's how do you slide it in?

00:26:39.314 --> 00:26:41.582
It's just like doing ads like, yeah, I mean I.

00:26:41.582 --> 00:26:55.128
I could talk for days about how my performance and my my lifestyle has improved since I went on the the whoop like the actual wearable right in here, and this thing is like literally, I stopped drinking because of it.

00:26:55.128 --> 00:27:16.403
Okay, right, and I endorse this with all musicians, because we don't know how bad our actual lifestyle is and until we get the actual metrics, when we go, oh shit, I'm not sleeping, oh man, my heart rate is that high, and then they start really, because now we have the metrics to prove it.

00:27:16.403 --> 00:27:16.845
Yeah.

00:27:17.226 --> 00:27:18.800
Right, and I didn't know it.

00:27:18.800 --> 00:27:24.538
I was just the same until I went and started checking in on this and they give you performance updates Every week.

00:27:24.538 --> 00:27:28.917
They give you your weekly assessment, they give you your monthly assessment, they give you a whole annual thing.

00:27:28.917 --> 00:27:33.428
So I can present this to my health practitioners, my doctors, my whole medical team.

00:27:33.428 --> 00:27:36.941
And they even started, like I noticed, when I was playing drums.

00:27:36.941 --> 00:27:43.666
I was like playing, and then it would check in automatically, activity detected and it would pick it up as like cycling.

00:27:43.666 --> 00:27:44.497
I'm like wow.

00:27:44.497 --> 00:27:51.819
But then I looked at the stats on my why because, like, I'm in zone two for 45 minutes straight.

00:27:51.819 --> 00:27:53.464
That's freaking amazing.

00:27:53.464 --> 00:27:55.491
Zone two training is incredible cardiac.

00:27:55.491 --> 00:27:57.237
More musicians need to know that.

00:27:57.237 --> 00:28:02.877
And I got to thinking I'm like guys we got to make like stage performance or like drumming as an activity.

00:28:02.939 --> 00:28:18.098
So I had a chat with the, with the whoop team, and we got that in there oh cool, and this whole time you didn't realize that I just did an ad for whoop better uh, you know better better sponsorship transition than like linus tech tips that's what I mean.

00:28:18.098 --> 00:28:25.046
But but that's the thing is that, like it's, it's all in how you present the material yeah a lot of those folks that are doing like sales, sales, sales.

00:28:25.246 --> 00:28:29.121
All they see they they forget about the relationship, they forget about the people on the other side.

00:28:29.121 --> 00:28:31.345
There's no benefit for that person.

00:28:31.345 --> 00:28:51.646
This will change a musician's life, and when you can communicate it through story and that's where I want to get to, because you have an incredible story of how you became a producer, a video maestro I don't even know all the hats that you do, so I'd love to give you an opportunity to walk us through.

00:28:51.646 --> 00:28:58.979
How did you get into doing production, to start what you're doing, because you do so much man.

00:28:59.903 --> 00:29:10.260
Sure, if you've read the Go-Giver, he talks about the different people that live inside of you and I think one of them is the technician.

00:29:10.260 --> 00:29:11.023
Am I getting that right?

00:29:11.023 --> 00:29:14.003
Yeah, so I was always kind of the technician.

00:29:14.003 --> 00:29:23.781
Technical stuff kind of always made me super excited Figuring out what's the best way to mic up a guitar amp so that it'll sound amazing played back.

00:29:23.781 --> 00:29:37.486
So my relationship with music was quite often revolving around recording my own music or trying to make my own YouTube videos, that kind of stuff, because the technical aspect of that really excited me.

00:29:37.486 --> 00:29:50.380
And at a certain point colleagues noticed that I was the guy that was figuring out how to do video and record stuff and they'd be like well, can you record my song, can you make a video for me?

00:29:50.380 --> 00:29:52.099
I'd be like cool, it sounds fun.

00:29:52.099 --> 00:29:55.484
That's more technical kind of play time for me.

00:29:55.484 --> 00:29:59.883
Basically, bring your guitar amp over, let's see what your guitar amp sounds like, stuff like that.

00:29:59.883 --> 00:30:09.615
And I think I just realized at a certain point that my obsession with that would be really well served by helping other people make their music.

00:30:09.615 --> 00:30:23.442
Yeah, like I get to do the favorite part of the the you know the musician life cycle, if you think of like performing and recording and promoting and releasing, yeah, which is definitely the more technical capturing the moments sort of part of it.

00:30:23.442 --> 00:30:29.266
I just get to do that all the time now, which fulfills me a lot and I think it provides a lot of value.

00:30:29.266 --> 00:30:31.623
So that's how I got into the production side of things.

00:30:31.623 --> 00:30:35.546
And then for the video side of things, I was always peripherally interested in that.

00:30:36.674 --> 00:30:47.622
But my friend Oliver Clark, who runs Shutter Release Productions, one day I was thinking I should get a nicer camera for social media content and maybe just recording bands while they're in and getting some content.

00:30:47.622 --> 00:30:49.501
So I was going to get a GoPro or something.

00:30:49.501 --> 00:30:52.502
And I messaged him I was like, do you think I should get a GoPro?

00:30:52.502 --> 00:30:55.303
And he's like, no, get XYZ camera.

00:30:55.303 --> 00:30:56.566
And so I did.

00:30:56.566 --> 00:31:01.507
And then that was just another technical kind of thing for me to get obsessed with.

00:31:01.507 --> 00:31:03.823
Oh, you can get obsessed.

00:31:04.076 --> 00:31:05.481
Color grading is like mixing a song.

00:31:05.481 --> 00:31:09.266
I can get really deep into color grading theory now and stuff like that.

00:31:09.266 --> 00:31:11.458
And there was just.

00:31:11.458 --> 00:31:13.044
I think it provides a lot of value.

00:31:13.044 --> 00:31:20.888
There's a lot of need for visual content now to go along with music or small business or anything that you're doing.

00:31:20.888 --> 00:31:23.196
We live in a very visual world.

00:31:23.196 --> 00:31:43.414
As soon as I realized that kind of all of the people that I was working with also benefit from me having a camera with me and filming our moments in the studio or going to their shows and capturing content that way, I was like OK, I have to add this into what I do as a business, because there's a lot of synergy between what I'm already doing and what I could be doing.

00:31:43.756 --> 00:31:47.143
Yeah, and you've clearly got like the passion.

00:31:47.143 --> 00:31:48.164
I love how you said it.

00:31:48.164 --> 00:31:51.392
It's it sounds like layers, like everything that you do.

00:31:51.392 --> 00:31:56.451
There's like, there's the surface and then, like most people know, maybe the first two layers or so.

00:31:56.451 --> 00:31:58.525
Right, like the, the artists that are coming in.

00:31:58.525 --> 00:32:01.200
They're like, yeah, we need some, like Instagram photos and we need some.

00:32:01.200 --> 00:32:28.558
But now what you can do is like and we'll turn the conversation to the aesthetic, the brand of the band, right, because like, yeah, you could stay there and you could just get some photos, but then you could like color grade it and you can match it and capture the vibe of what, like, if that, if that song has got like a certain attitude, you can find the ways, like visually, to call that out and to really put that as like the forefront for that band.

00:32:28.558 --> 00:32:33.808
So when, when somebody looks at it, they immediately subconsciously think, attitude, whoa, that's cool.

00:32:34.148 --> 00:32:34.430
Yeah.

00:32:34.816 --> 00:32:35.980
Or even better, ratitude.

00:32:35.980 --> 00:32:38.182
Right, that's ratitude right there guys.

00:32:39.134 --> 00:32:41.301
And that's I mean, but that's what I'm saying.

00:32:41.301 --> 00:32:41.923
Is that visual?

00:32:41.923 --> 00:32:44.198
I'm right with you and I'd love to know what.

00:32:44.198 --> 00:32:59.583
When a band comes in and they think about recording the album and they think about maybe tour, they have like bits and pieces and you're the guy that sounds like you glue it all together, you stitch it all together with like all of the different things that you do so like.

00:32:59.583 --> 00:33:01.066
What is it that?

00:33:01.066 --> 00:33:06.462
When the band comes in, what kind of a full package can they expect from from a guy like?

00:33:07.404 --> 00:33:10.730
you Really it's full kind of creative.

00:33:10.730 --> 00:33:13.743
What you're putting out into the world is what I do.

00:33:13.743 --> 00:33:26.364
So everything from figuring out the sound of your record and recording it and producing it, getting some help maybe with artwork, photography capturing I mean, a big thing is selling live shows lately.

00:33:26.364 --> 00:33:42.557
So if you can capture the essence of what an artist looks like live and make it look exciting and pitch it to the the right people who would be an audience for that, that can go a really long way to selling tickets or getting yourself on festivals and booking tours.

00:33:42.557 --> 00:33:43.159
Yeah.

00:33:43.398 --> 00:33:52.736
So that's really been the focus is kind of helping bands represent themselves in a very holistic way like this is what we sound like.

00:33:52.736 --> 00:33:53.778
This is what we look like.

00:33:53.778 --> 00:33:56.625
This is what you can expect if you come to a concert.

00:33:56.625 --> 00:34:02.275
Um, this is kind of you always want to try and build a bit of an emotional connection with fan members and stuff.

00:34:02.275 --> 00:34:04.921
So this is who we are as personalities.

00:34:04.921 --> 00:34:07.105
This is footage of us goofing off in the studio.

00:34:07.105 --> 00:34:20.503
Yeah, or this is footage of us being really serious in the studio, because we're just like that intensely focused on our craft and there's there's multiple stories you can tell there yeah it's, isn't it wild like you could take so many threads and a lot of artists I know, don't, don't think about that.

00:34:20.724 --> 00:34:31.027
They don't even think like oh hey, we could craft a whole story we could make like this whole recording experience, like a little docu-series totally yeah, right, and have you done that in the past?

00:34:31.447 --> 00:34:37.505
I am currently working on putting that together for a few different bands oh crazy um, that stuff does take.

00:34:37.565 --> 00:34:42.063
You have to like build up your footage and your content and what you capture for quite a while.

00:34:42.063 --> 00:35:00.217
So I've had one band that I've been working with for like four months just going to shows, going to band practices and, um, ultimately keeping lots of cameras around when they come to work on their next record, and so it'll end up being like a year, a year-long journey of we have footage of them practicing songs as they're writing them to.

00:35:00.217 --> 00:35:11.518
We'll have footage of them recording the final takes of those songs and putting that together into a little docu-series and that's so exciting for, like the fan, the music kid in me man, like I love that.

00:35:11.538 --> 00:35:12.139
I don't know about you.

00:35:12.139 --> 00:35:15.259
Do you have some favorite rockumentaries or any like favorite movie?

00:35:15.259 --> 00:35:18.152
Uh, like the concerts with like the behind the scenes.

00:35:18.152 --> 00:35:18.875
Do you have any favorites?

00:35:19.456 --> 00:35:27.141
I think one of my favorites is probably a more obscure one, but, um, this progressive metal band between the buried and me, okay, they're.

00:35:27.141 --> 00:35:28.083
Uh, which album was it?

00:35:28.083 --> 00:35:29.465
Coma, ecliptic, I think.

00:35:29.465 --> 00:35:30.617
And they've done a lot.

00:35:30.617 --> 00:35:32.067
They do a lot of these documentaries.

00:35:32.067 --> 00:35:36.509
I think they have one for almost each album that they've recorded, that's wild yeah, coma ecliptic.

00:35:36.568 --> 00:35:40.179
I hadn't actually listened to their music very much or listened to that album.

00:35:40.179 --> 00:35:46.161
I was just like strolling through youtube one day and I was like, oh, I've heard of this band, this looks interesting.

00:35:46.161 --> 00:35:48.887
And I watched like this hour-long documentary on this record.

00:35:48.887 --> 00:35:52.072
I hadn't heard and now I listen to that record all the time.

00:35:52.072 --> 00:35:53.436
It's like one of my favorite albums.

00:35:53.436 --> 00:36:01.818
Yeah, so that's definitely up there and it just it was like very candid, um, it was like being a fly on the wall while they're recording stuff.

00:36:01.818 --> 00:36:03.101
Yeah, um.

00:36:03.101 --> 00:36:07.800
So the the producer in me was also very intrigued because yeah you kind of see what.

00:36:07.820 --> 00:36:09.226
I think Jamie King produced that record.

00:36:09.226 --> 00:36:13.387
So you're seeing like Jamie telling them to do certain things as they're tracking guitar.

00:36:13.387 --> 00:36:16.563
You see them getting like mad when they have to do another take.

00:36:16.563 --> 00:36:17.085
Yeah.

00:36:17.105 --> 00:36:17.465
Like it was.

00:36:17.465 --> 00:36:19.061
It was super like being a fly on the wall.

00:36:19.061 --> 00:36:24.644
There was no polish to it that way, like they weren't cherry picking the moments that made them look the best.

00:36:24.644 --> 00:36:34.518
No, like their guitarist is like jamie, I love you, but like every time you make me want to do, every time you ask me to do another guitar take, I just want to come over there and like strangle you.

00:36:34.518 --> 00:36:39.418
I'm like, yeah, they kept that in the documentary, this guy just having a meltdown because but that's real.

00:36:39.639 --> 00:36:40.181
But that's real.

00:36:40.181 --> 00:36:41.286
Yeah, totally.

00:36:41.286 --> 00:36:42.510
You get it from the other side.

00:36:42.510 --> 00:36:46.501
I remember being super frustrated as an artist not being able to play something I had written.

00:36:46.501 --> 00:36:50.728
Yeah, so I can only imagine because the pressure is on.

00:36:50.728 --> 00:37:04.347
It is a totally different game For those of you listening that have yet to step into a real solid studio and really put your all into the songs that you thought you wrote.

00:37:04.347 --> 00:37:15.027
You get humbled real fast, like as a drummer, you're behind meter or you're pushed or it's like oh my god, and that that delays the whole project.

00:37:15.047 --> 00:37:28.958
So now you feel like a burden and it probably contributes to this imposter syndrome that we started things with yeah like there's so much to it, it's I mean I think it's, uh, the biggest thing I try to do is not have the environment feel like there's a lot of pressure in it.

00:37:28.958 --> 00:37:36.460
If someone's recording with me, yeah, um, and like just being transparent, like, yeah, maybe that you could, you might be able to do a better take of that.

00:37:36.460 --> 00:37:37.960
We could try some other things.

00:37:37.960 --> 00:37:40.139
Yeah, why don't we just come back to the song?

00:37:40.139 --> 00:37:41.143
Let's work on some other songs.

00:37:41.143 --> 00:37:46.061
Come back to this one in a bit as relaxed as possible.

00:37:46.061 --> 00:37:49.344
Go get some Cheetos from the snack drawer.

00:37:49.344 --> 00:37:50.445
Let's just go for a walk.

00:37:50.726 --> 00:37:58.740
Go meditate yeah exactly, and that's why I mean I hate charging hourly for most things too, because I feel like hourly just puts on this pressure of like.

00:37:58.800 --> 00:38:10.166
Every time I mess up this take, it's like another 20 minutes of studio time I'm paying for, and like sure you do have to assign value to time to a certain extent.

00:38:10.166 --> 00:38:18.048
I can't spend one month working on a song for someone at the same rate as one day working on a song for someone, so you put some boundaries there.

00:38:18.048 --> 00:38:28.541
But hourly in particular, I think is a really damaging kind of way to structure your business if you're in a creative field and it's not even where the value comes from.

00:38:28.541 --> 00:38:32.586
You're not paying me for 15 hours of my time exactly.

00:38:32.586 --> 00:38:58.905
You're paying me for a really cool song that matches the vision you had in your head, and so if we can kind of structure our arrangement around the value you're getting as opposed to the specifics of how many minutes we spent working on it, I think it just seems to create a more welcoming environment for exploring different creative avenues and not feeling like it was a stressful process.

00:38:58.905 --> 00:39:02.443
But hopefully that's how you felt.

00:39:02.934 --> 00:39:15.367
Oh yeah, homie, I mean I think this is a great part to take a bit of a breather, because I want to visit after we come back from break here.

00:39:15.367 --> 00:39:22.045
I want to visit the thing that you said, assigning value, because I think that's a big problem and we can wrap things up after that.

00:39:22.045 --> 00:39:24.724
But I wanted to put you on the spot here.

00:39:24.724 --> 00:39:28.664
We didn't talk about this, but you're a 100 percenter, so I I trust that you can do this.

00:39:28.664 --> 00:39:34.880
We were talking about some like really exciting projects that that you've had a chance to work on and really bringing them to life just now.

00:39:34.880 --> 00:39:39.177
Do you have anyone that comes to mind that you would want to?

00:39:39.177 --> 00:39:40.019
You wouldn't want to put in?

00:39:40.400 --> 00:39:42.106
We do commercials a little different around here.

00:39:42.106 --> 00:39:43.518
We play music, okay.

00:39:43.518 --> 00:39:45.943
We're reversing radio, okay.

00:39:45.943 --> 00:39:51.557
So I'd love to give you the opportunity to be the radio dj of under the radar, and you can.

00:39:51.557 --> 00:39:59.547
You can introduce one of your favorite projects that you've had a uh, an impact on in putting uh and putting a track out, and we'll we'll give them a little shout.

00:39:59.547 --> 00:40:00.215
How about that?

00:40:00.938 --> 00:40:02.862
that sounds awesome, man go for it.

00:40:02.902 --> 00:40:04.847
Dude the, the mic is yours all right.

00:40:04.967 --> 00:40:10.668
I mean, the track I'd put a spotlight on is the song called Kwanzaa by a band called Orange Orange with a J.

00:40:10.668 --> 00:40:14.362
Everyone pronounces them a little different.

00:40:14.362 --> 00:40:16.903
I called them Orange for the longest time, but I think it's just Orange.

00:40:16.903 --> 00:40:35.326
Super cool math rock, slash, emo trio that I had the chance to work with about a year ago now and it was super cool because it's the kind of music that I listen to in my free time, like just super crazy, experimental, really technical at moments.

00:40:35.326 --> 00:40:47.181
Math rock, you know, emo, prog rock, like it was all the weird influences that I have kind of rolled up into one and I don't feel like there's that many bands doing that kind of stuff, at least not in our little Calgary scene.

00:40:47.181 --> 00:40:49.681
So super cool song.

00:40:49.681 --> 00:40:52.302
It's instrumental, it goes in a million different directions.

00:40:52.474 --> 00:40:56.927
They were rewriting parts in the studio and talking crazy jazz harmony.

00:40:56.927 --> 00:40:58.579
I was like what is happening here?

00:40:58.579 --> 00:41:02.744
We got nominated for a YYC Music Award.

00:41:02.744 --> 00:41:15.481
They were up for Alternative Recording of the Year, which was super cool and totally unexpected Because, like I said, it's not the kind of stuff you'd hear on our local alternative music radio station.

00:41:15.481 --> 00:41:23.481
Like it's definitely, for it's music for musicians and music for people who love like emo and math rock and it's just kind of a little out there.

00:41:23.481 --> 00:41:27.983
But, like, matt Berry presented them as a nominee, which is super cool.

00:41:27.983 --> 00:41:31.298
So, yeah, shout out to my guys in Orange Perfect, and the name of that track is Matt Berry presented them as a nominee, which is super cool.

00:41:31.298 --> 00:41:32.181
So, yeah, shout out to my guys in Orange.

00:41:32.201 --> 00:41:34.523
Perfect, and the name of that track is Quanzor.

00:41:34.523 --> 00:41:38.768
Alright, and you guys heard it here first as a fresh cut on Under the.

00:41:38.768 --> 00:41:45.429
Radar Alright, folks, you just heard Orange.

00:41:45.650 --> 00:41:47.335
Orange, orange Orange Quanzor.

00:41:47.476 --> 00:41:48.077
Quanzor.

00:41:48.077 --> 00:41:51.847
It sounds like a SpongeBob character.

00:41:52.855 --> 00:41:54.157
I feel like it's a space term.

00:41:54.157 --> 00:41:55.500
Okay, Quanzor.

00:41:56.681 --> 00:41:57.282
Orange.

00:41:57.282 --> 00:41:58.646
What does Quanzor mean?

00:41:58.646 --> 00:41:59.467
I'm a word guy.

00:41:59.467 --> 00:42:00.369
I want to know what that means.

00:42:00.369 --> 00:42:03.784
Hit us up Orange, orange, orange.

00:42:03.784 --> 00:42:10.626
We'll drop that link to their profile so everybody can listen to that.

00:42:10.626 --> 00:42:12.621
Absolutely, grill them on the question.

00:42:12.896 --> 00:42:13.518
What does that?

00:42:13.679 --> 00:42:17.800
mean Dude, we talked about something just before.

00:42:17.800 --> 00:42:18.784
We had a break there.

00:42:18.784 --> 00:42:25.387
That really stuck out to me and I want to turn the conversation, as we round this thing out, to value.

00:42:25.835 --> 00:42:26.096
Yeah, to value.

00:42:26.717 --> 00:42:33.878
And especially in the creative industry, whether it's video, whether it's visual art, whether it's music.

00:42:33.878 --> 00:42:44.447
I'm uncertain if you've had this experience, but I've frequently come up against the oh, it's art, I don't charge for that, it's my art, it's my gift to the world.

00:42:44.447 --> 00:42:44.755
I can't.

00:42:44.755 --> 00:42:51.608
And we have this scarcity mindset around being able to blend art with income.

00:42:51.608 --> 00:42:57.708
Now my question to you, dude, is have you ever experienced scarcity in the music industry?

00:42:58.715 --> 00:43:07.280
I mean, I think scarcity is probably something that we like to talk about too much in the music industry and like from all sides of it.

00:43:07.280 --> 00:43:18.405
From the artist side there's a lot of talk of there's not enough money being put into developing music and there's not enough opportunities for artists.

00:43:18.405 --> 00:43:27.641
And then on the side of service providers if you talk to a lot of audio engineers or other producers and stuff there's a lot of complaining about.

00:43:27.641 --> 00:43:31.065
Yeah, just no one wants to pay for recording music anymore.

00:43:31.065 --> 00:43:33.054
Everyone wants to do it themselves.

00:43:33.054 --> 00:43:38.307
There's not enough value for what I do anymore.

00:43:38.307 --> 00:43:40.639
So you definitely like scarcity.

00:43:40.639 --> 00:43:47.286
It's kind of a cliche, but everyone kind of wants to portray this starving artist thing.

00:43:47.286 --> 00:43:53.465
There's almost this idea that if you're making money, you've compromised your art or your creativity somehow.

00:43:53.614 --> 00:43:54.579
Yeah, you've sold out.

00:43:54.699 --> 00:43:54.981
Yeah.

00:43:55.161 --> 00:44:00.342
Yeah, and now I've run into that typically in the older generation too, there's a lot of jaded musicians out there.

00:44:00.342 --> 00:44:07.184
Have you ever run into anybody that's been like how do I get what I need?

00:44:07.184 --> 00:44:08.460
You know what I mean.

00:44:08.460 --> 00:44:11.739
The people that are just like so self-serving.

00:44:11.739 --> 00:44:12.864
Have you ever run into that?

00:44:13.114 --> 00:44:31.347
Yeah, yeah, just recently I had someone kind of talking to me about their music and production and asking me about you know, potentially producing something, and they had like every few minutes they would say so I'm just like I'm trying to ask you like how am I going to make my money back if I record a track with you?

00:44:31.347 --> 00:44:32.699
How do I make my money back?

00:44:32.699 --> 00:44:33.603
How do I make my money back?

00:44:33.603 --> 00:44:57.900
And I was trying to explain that where I really think running your music as a business comes from is providing experiences and moments that are really impactful to other people and building a really genuine connection with the people that you listen to your music and then having a pitch after that that you can sell to them.

00:44:57.900 --> 00:45:02.121
We've built a really cool connection together as an audience and artist.

00:45:02.846 --> 00:45:03.650
I have cool t-shirts.

00:45:03.650 --> 00:45:09.159
If you want to buy t-shirts, or come see me on tour or subscribe to my Patreon and I'll show you.

00:45:09.159 --> 00:45:16.291
You know unreleased songs or demos, or you know moments of me recording music that no one else gets to see.

00:45:16.291 --> 00:45:20.364
Yeah, but it's really like about what you have to create value.

00:45:20.364 --> 00:45:32.882
You have to, you have to do a lot of giving and then, after you do all that giving, you can kind of flip it back and say, if you, you know, know, got value from what I put out into the world, then you can send some value back my way.

00:45:32.882 --> 00:45:35.268
Yeah, but it really has to be a two-way thing.

00:45:35.268 --> 00:45:47.898
And this guy just seemed to to want to think that if he records a song and spends a bit of money doing that, that, like that should be enough to just like why isn't the money coming back in it's?

00:45:47.998 --> 00:45:56.768
so funny man I that's common in in most places in society that we we have this like what's in it for me attitude in many places.

00:45:56.768 --> 00:45:57.215
Yeah.

00:45:57.215 --> 00:45:59.360
And you highlighted it to one of my favorite books.

00:45:59.360 --> 00:46:09.226
Uh, the go giver is that if we, if you give value, like your bank account is a direct relation to the amount of give, uh, the value that you're putting out into the world.

00:46:09.407 --> 00:46:10.009
Yeah, totally.

00:46:10.268 --> 00:46:11.751
And that's if you're.

00:46:11.751 --> 00:46:19.336
That's one of those things that if you're unhappy about where your, where your outcome is, look at what belief system you're subscribed to and how your language is.

00:46:19.336 --> 00:46:28.664
So, totally, gentlemen, who's like worried so much about how he makes money back, he's not actually giving it out, he's not actually putting any money out there.

00:46:28.664 --> 00:46:37.922
So, in the world that he's looking for, the fastest way for people to see his value is for him to provide more value.

00:46:37.922 --> 00:46:47.385
Totally, you know what I mean, and he's the type of person, by the sounds of it, that it would be very hard to have that conversation with.

00:46:48.114 --> 00:46:52.706
Yeah, I mean, he wasn't particularly receptive to when I was going out there.

00:46:52.726 --> 00:46:53.708
Yeah, what kind of things did you say?

00:46:53.708 --> 00:46:55.561
Like, when you have those kind of people, what do you say?

00:46:56.434 --> 00:47:01.382
Well, I mean, if the question of like, how am I supposed to make money as a musician?

00:47:01.382 --> 00:47:14.766
Comes up, it really comes back to what kind of moments and experiences are you creating for your audience that is valuable, that's worth something to them, and it doesn't have to be in a sellout kind of way.

00:47:14.766 --> 00:47:22.523
You don't have to look at the Spotify charts for country music and say, oh well, bro, country is a big thing right now.

00:47:22.523 --> 00:47:23.800
I better make a bro country song.

00:47:23.800 --> 00:47:29.817
But if you're making music, there's likely something that really excited you while you were making a song.

00:47:29.817 --> 00:47:38.597
Like you're making a rock track and there's like a halftime breakdown kind of thing near the end and you're so pumped when you're making that, you're so pumped every time you hear it back.

00:47:39.501 --> 00:47:43.896
That's probably a sign that that's something that is a moment that someone else would get value from as well.

00:47:44.458 --> 00:47:47.965
So it's about taking the time to just put that out into the world.

00:47:47.965 --> 00:47:58.570
Make a funny little TikTok about this cool breakdown you created and don't assign the value of the song to how many views or how much engagement that TikTok gets.

00:47:58.570 --> 00:48:11.201
I think that's where a lot of people get caught up is they put something that's really close to their heart out there and it doesn't get engagement and they see that as that, as oh well, this thing is worth less now because other people don't appreciate it as much as I do.

00:48:11.201 --> 00:48:22.766
Yeah, I think everything that you appreciate put out there, it's not worth any less because someone else didn't engage in it, but you're giving someone else the opportunity to find it and really bond with it.

00:48:22.766 --> 00:48:35.865
And if you don't push it out there, like someone else who might have really loved the song and gone through some sort of spiritual experience listening to it, never has the opportunity to see it because it's not easy enough to find.

00:48:35.865 --> 00:48:38.554
I think that's where a lot of people get caught up to.

00:48:41.081 --> 00:48:44.327
Yeah, they get lost on cost versus investment.

00:48:44.327 --> 00:48:47.556
And investment is exactly as it sounds it's a long game.

00:48:47.556 --> 00:48:49.498
And when you can find things that are really relatable to other people, invest versus investment.

00:48:49.498 --> 00:48:51.079
Yeah, and investment is exactly as it sounds it's a long game, it is Right.

00:48:51.079 --> 00:48:57.626
And when you can find things that are really relatable to other people, like if something inspires you emotionally, there's a high likelihood it'll inspire somebody else.

00:48:57.626 --> 00:49:04.777
So when you find that, run with it and, like we started today with, give it a chance to breathe, absolutely Right.

00:49:04.777 --> 00:49:08.936
If you love, like as an artist, if you love coffee, absolutely right.

00:49:08.936 --> 00:49:16.025
If you, if you love like as an artist, if you love coffee, talk about how much you love coffee, yeah, that can bring people into your world that would otherwise not relate to your music, but now they relate to you as a human, totally.

00:49:16.025 --> 00:49:21.922
You know like, oh man, I love this denim, this denim is so great canadian tux, I love the canadian tux.

00:49:22.864 --> 00:49:23.726
Look at that he's so.

00:49:23.726 --> 00:49:25.717
He's such a cool homie, you know.

00:49:25.717 --> 00:49:26.778
You know what I'm saying.

00:49:26.880 --> 00:49:36.304
I do know what you're saying but they find the human part to attach to, yeah, and now we can look at it like if we're the artist we can go oh, okay, that's cool.

00:49:36.304 --> 00:49:37.206
So this is a long game.

00:49:37.206 --> 00:49:40.030
I'm going to invest this now for capital later.

00:49:40.030 --> 00:49:46.376
Yeah, to make that back over time, because I'm going to give value and it puts skin in the game.

00:49:46.376 --> 00:49:47.896
Right, because I'm going to give value and it puts skin in the game.

00:49:47.896 --> 00:50:01.751
Right, you put skin in the game to be able to create an experience that you said, a value, some sort of atmosphere or situation for that listener on the other side.

00:50:01.751 --> 00:50:06.143
Totally, that inspires them to take action, to want to give back to you.

00:50:06.545 --> 00:50:10.199
Yeah, exactly them to take action, to want to give back to you.

00:50:10.199 --> 00:50:18.902
Yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah, you really you really do have to inspire people to, to want to buy your t-shirts or come to your shows or give the value back somehow, like, you have to build that emotional connection.

00:50:18.902 --> 00:50:33.766
Yeah, like, and people have such a deep connection with music it's it's so ingrained, and I think human identity is like the art that we associate with and that, what am I trying to say?

00:50:33.766 --> 00:50:36.304
The art that kind of just defines us as people.

00:50:37.277 --> 00:50:39.025
It's so tied to our identity.

00:50:39.025 --> 00:50:42.378
Exactly, I knew you were going with that If it's your favorite album ever.

00:50:42.659 --> 00:50:45.266
Why wouldn't you wear a t-shirt with the album artwork on it?

00:50:47.038 --> 00:50:48.663
Cause some conversation.

00:50:48.663 --> 00:50:49.865
Get people talking about it.

00:50:50.135 --> 00:50:50.416
Totally.

00:50:50.757 --> 00:50:51.338
That's beautiful.

00:50:51.338 --> 00:50:54.717
Well, speaking about all this, I mean one of the things I said is I love coffee.

00:50:54.717 --> 00:51:03.992
You know how much I love coffee and I think this is a great time to rip into one of my favorite segments ever in all of my career called Brutiments, brutiments, brutaments.

00:51:04.152 --> 00:51:04.635
Brutaments.

00:51:05.757 --> 00:51:07.519
Brutaments.

00:51:07.519 --> 00:51:19.052
So what I'm going to ask of you here, dason, on today's episode of Brutaments, is I would like you to first share with me your favorite beverage.

00:51:19.052 --> 00:51:21.844
It can be any type of beverage, okay, it can be a kombucha.

00:51:21.844 --> 00:51:25.335
It can be an alcoholic beverage, if you like, it can be a non-alcoholic beverage.

00:51:42.643 --> 00:51:45.784
It can be a cafe, it could be a tea, it could be whatever.

00:51:45.784 --> 00:51:49.007
All right, okay, share out to.

00:51:49.007 --> 00:51:50.387
What was the name of that spot we went to?

00:51:50.807 --> 00:51:52.628
Oh my goodness, where was it?

00:51:52.628 --> 00:51:53.349
It was the French.

00:51:53.389 --> 00:51:55.289
Across the street, yeah, across the street from there Le.

00:51:55.349 --> 00:51:56.291
Bougerain.

00:51:56.391 --> 00:51:56.771
Yeah.

00:51:57.210 --> 00:51:58.592
Le Bougerain, right down here.

00:51:58.592 --> 00:52:01.793
Fourth and 25th, corner of 4th and 25th.

00:52:01.793 --> 00:52:02.474
Shout out to that.

00:52:02.474 --> 00:52:04.077
Shout out to the French bakery.

00:52:04.657 --> 00:52:12.409
Yeah, and they made the eggnog chai or something like that, which was like the best drink I've had ever, cause it was all the things I like combined into one.

00:52:12.409 --> 00:52:15.083
I was on a sugar high for quite a while, oh yeah.

00:52:15.596 --> 00:52:16.981
It would be straight diabetes.

00:52:17.362 --> 00:52:21.791
But yeah, it's like I love like a good London fog and I also go through a lot of eggnog at Christmas time.

00:52:22.255 --> 00:52:27.045
So, those things together show me what that rudiment sounds like on the practice pad.

00:52:27.045 --> 00:52:28.489
Here we're repping Las Cabos.

00:52:28.489 --> 00:52:32.293
Here We've got the 5As we're going to have the mic pointing at them.

00:52:32.434 --> 00:52:33.440
Yeah, we've got to get in there.

00:52:33.440 --> 00:52:34.800
We've got to get in there for sure.

00:52:34.800 --> 00:52:36.097
Look at this Good thing.

00:52:36.097 --> 00:52:40.219
We've got an audio producer here, engineer extraordinaire, he's going to bring it right in.

00:52:40.219 --> 00:52:41.539
Do you want me to change it?

00:52:41.539 --> 00:52:49.677
Do you want me to bring it up?

00:52:49.677 --> 00:52:50.097
Okay, we're good.

00:52:50.097 --> 00:52:50.498
Okay, here we go.

00:52:50.498 --> 00:52:51.260
Eggnog chai on the practice pad here.

00:52:51.260 --> 00:52:54.206
Show me what that is.

00:52:54.206 --> 00:52:55.206
Wow, my goodness.

00:52:55.206 --> 00:52:56.349
And what are you doing there?

00:52:56.349 --> 00:52:58.664
Slow it down for the kids back at home.

00:52:58.664 --> 00:52:59.076
I'm sure.

00:52:59.076 --> 00:53:00.661
No Way, jose shout out.

00:53:00.661 --> 00:53:09.728
No Way, jose, here doing the in-house video edits here, we're going to chop this one up and slow it down.

00:53:09.728 --> 00:53:13.960
Show me what we're doing for the kids at home who want to pick up drumsticks.

00:53:13.960 --> 00:53:15.523
Yeah, here we go.

00:53:15.523 --> 00:53:16.507
Some rudiments, let's see.

00:53:16.896 --> 00:53:20.059
Based around six-stroke roll, with some light on six-stroke roll.

00:53:20.079 --> 00:53:26.137
Yeah, yeah, six-stroke roll, quite a great idea Leading with the right.

00:53:26.338 --> 00:53:32.864
it's basically yeah do that again one more time.

00:53:32.864 --> 00:53:39.708
That is dope.

00:53:39.708 --> 00:53:45.967
Look at that thing.

00:53:45.967 --> 00:53:46.148
Go.

00:53:46.148 --> 00:53:53.179
Oh, my goodness, guys, that is uh air horn worthy, my goodness.

00:53:53.179 --> 00:54:02.235
That uh well done, thank you, thank you, and uh, I I like to take the time because I'm repping the the sticks.

00:54:02.235 --> 00:54:05.739
I want to show you, uh, the the hack drummer I am so.

00:54:05.739 --> 00:54:07.262
So I'm going to do the same.

00:54:07.362 --> 00:54:16.740
And my favorite beverage, personally, for today was actually this delicious water, kefir, which is now almost gone.

00:54:16.740 --> 00:54:21.327
So all you've got to do is take some sugar and some water and shake the shit out of it.

00:54:21.327 --> 00:54:22.820
That's what Ronnie says.

00:54:22.820 --> 00:54:26.746
Now, whether that's true or not, I'm yet to try it, but that's what she says.

00:54:26.746 --> 00:54:32.402
So I'm going to finish this swig and then I'm going to tell you what it tastes like through my rudimentary practice.

00:54:32.402 --> 00:54:47.523
It's simple, it's sweet, much like just a basic triplet pattern the John Bonham, the John Bonham, just the straight 16 triplets.

00:54:47.523 --> 00:54:57.507
Not really a rudiment, it's a rudiment, right.

00:54:57.507 --> 00:55:02.507
And all we're doing here is, again, we're just alternating hands and accenting.

00:55:02.507 --> 00:55:06.204
So the kids at home pick up your Las Cabos drumstick practice.

00:55:06.204 --> 00:55:08.286
Pad your 5As I actually prefer, prefer.

00:55:08.286 --> 00:55:10.038
This is rare that I've got the 5a.

00:55:10.038 --> 00:55:12.405
That's not the pink dip.

00:55:12.405 --> 00:55:14.731
I'm notorious for the pinks.

00:55:14.731 --> 00:55:19.322
Okay, like I'm all about the pink sticks man yeah people are like dude's playing pink sticks.

00:55:19.342 --> 00:55:25.764
I'm like, yeah, bro, one dollar, every dollar goes over to, uh, the, the breast cancer research.

00:55:25.764 --> 00:55:27.628
Okay, so that's you know great cause.

00:55:27.628 --> 00:55:29.639
Yeah, like, hey, let's give a great call.

00:55:29.639 --> 00:55:34.157
So again, we'll slow it right down for the kids at home.

00:55:34.157 --> 00:55:47.552
One, two, three, right.

00:55:48.554 --> 00:55:48.936
I love it.

00:55:49.096 --> 00:56:18.115
And that's as one of the simplest things, things and it's so sweet when you're putting this like this, like rock beat, right, it's just, it's the coolest thing and it's like bottom really revolutionized the way swing came in like the big band stuff to like rock and roll, and one of my favorite tracks ever was like when he unleashed that cashmere four, four, yeah, over page and um, and oh, was it page that wrote that?

00:56:18.115 --> 00:56:18.757
No, I don't think so.

00:56:18.757 --> 00:56:21.184
I think I think jones wrote that song.

00:56:21.184 --> 00:56:23.876
I think jones wrote that song, like that whole.

00:56:23.876 --> 00:56:27.282
I might be wrong, jimmy, let me know if I'm wrong.

00:56:27.282 --> 00:56:30.829
Okay, bro, you got my number right.

00:56:30.829 --> 00:56:39.574
But yeah, like it was such an interesting pattern because they're playing like a 3-4 and then he comes in with this rock four and I was like whoa, the opportunities were endless.

00:56:39.574 --> 00:56:44.987
So super simple, super casual and so so sweet.

00:56:46.135 --> 00:56:51.307
Thank you to Las Cabos for being the official sponsor of Under the Radar.

00:56:51.307 --> 00:56:53.322
So, kids, pick up your runes.

00:56:53.322 --> 00:56:54.659
It's the only instrument.

00:56:54.659 --> 00:56:55.262
Did you know this?

00:56:55.262 --> 00:56:57.061
Yeah, fun fact, only instrument.

00:56:57.061 --> 00:56:58.659
You don't actually need the instrument to play.

00:56:58.659 --> 00:57:00.244
Think about it.

00:57:00.405 --> 00:57:03.416
Yeah, it's pretty much.

00:57:03.416 --> 00:57:06.724
It's pretty ingrained in just culture like rhythm.

00:57:06.925 --> 00:57:08.547
We hit right, we got a heartbeat.

00:57:08.547 --> 00:57:12.414
Yeah, yeah, right, dude, this has been such a wicked chat.

00:57:12.414 --> 00:57:29.186
I want to give you an opportunity to share with the fine people of Under the Radar, where they can find you, what kind of interesting, cool things you're up to right now and tell us a little bit more about what's uh, what's on the horizon for story beat.

00:57:29.655 --> 00:57:30.456
Yeah, absolutely.

00:57:30.456 --> 00:57:42.257
Um, I mean, if you, if you're interested in seeing my work, you can find me at storybeatmediacom or, as storybeatmedia, on Facebook and Instagram or anywhere else that you really do your social media.

00:57:42.257 --> 00:57:48.157
Um, coming up, I mean myself and my buddy, oliver Clark, who runs Shutter Release Productions.

00:57:48.157 --> 00:57:59.668
We filmed something crazy like 20 live music videos together this year, so we're both currently in an editing frenzy to get all that stuff ready to go out into the world.

00:57:59.668 --> 00:58:11.666
I think it's a really cool showcase of the diversity and richness of Calgary's music scene, and we even potentially have some video of some touring acts that came through.

00:58:11.666 --> 00:58:23.594
So, yeah, just a really nice showcase of all the cool music and performance stuff that's happening in Calgary, and we'll hopefully get other people as stoked as I was to go see more local music.

00:58:23.715 --> 00:58:29.527
I haven't felt more inspired about just being at local venues as much as I'm feeling now.

00:58:29.527 --> 00:58:35.867
Um, I mean, that's that's the really the big thing I want to perfect, to let you know about.

00:58:35.867 --> 00:58:37.639
And then I'm always producing music.

00:58:37.639 --> 00:58:43.166
Go to my, my website, see all the cool stuff that's, uh, coming out that I've had the opportunity to be involved with.

00:58:43.166 --> 00:58:45.695
I can't talk too much about the stuff I'm currently producing.

00:58:45.695 --> 00:58:52.590
Yeah, but like there's, there's some really great local talent that is going to be coming out with some very cool stuff in the next few months.

00:58:53.032 --> 00:58:53.974
Very excited for it, man.

00:58:53.974 --> 00:59:02.516
That's awesome, and if there was one thing that listeners could take home today, that would be like yo, that's the secret to success.

00:59:02.516 --> 00:59:05.858
What would that one thing be from you, my man?

00:59:06.659 --> 00:59:08.259
What would that one thing be from you, my man?

00:59:08.259 --> 00:59:17.922
I think the one thing I can say is don't think too much about all the hesitations you might have on doing anything creative or putting yourself out into the world.

00:59:17.922 --> 00:59:20.842
Just do it, and do it as much as you possibly can.

00:59:20.842 --> 00:59:22.043
It's really.

00:59:22.043 --> 00:59:24.244
Art is a numbers game in its own weird way.

00:59:24.244 --> 00:59:31.266
The more art you make, the better art you make and the more likely other people are to have some sort of emotional connection to it.

00:59:32.226 --> 00:59:32.746
Love that man.

00:59:32.746 --> 00:59:33.847
That's you know.

00:59:33.847 --> 00:59:35.827
Truer words have yet to be spoken.

00:59:35.827 --> 00:59:36.987
That's very cool.

00:59:36.987 --> 00:59:39.168
Dason, thank you so much for being here.

00:59:39.168 --> 00:59:41.309
Thank you for your time, your space and your energy.

00:59:41.309 --> 00:59:45.809
Folks, if you liked what you heard, you know where to find the.

00:59:45.809 --> 00:59:50.552
We're going to make sure Dacen's got all the links in the show notes here.

00:59:50.552 --> 00:59:55.952
Big thank you to the sponsors today Las Cabos Drumsticks, thank you, whoop.

00:59:55.952 --> 00:59:58.034
Thank you to everybody.

00:59:58.034 --> 01:00:00.056
Big shout out to no Way.

01:00:00.056 --> 01:00:09.463
Jose Productions, storybeat Media, everybody that has helped make this thing a super success, and until next time y'all stay sweet Peace.